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The alaska board only allows the TI calculator to be used and it is furnished as part of the exam. (Good salesmanship for and inferior product). As for taking the FE after I have passed my PE, I guess the PE´s on the board are afraid of someone that has spent 30 odd years in the trades straighing out engineering screw ups.

In reply to -:
Why do you need to take the FE if you have passed the PE exam? However, the new Hp35s is now available and allowed on this exam. It is an RPN calculator with most of the features of the Hp15c plus more RAM.

DS
4/24/2008 10:56:17 PM - US  | reply

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Why do you need to take the FE if you have passed the PE exam?

However, the new Hp35s is now available and allowed on this exam. It is an RPN calculator with most of the features of the Hp15c plus more RAM.

In reply to DS:
I took the PE exam in 2004 using my old 15c and passed, now they insist that I use a TI to take the FE exam. At 62 I dont have the patience to unlearn RPN.

Anonymous
3/26/2008 11:20:12 AM - US  | reply

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I took the PE exam in 2004 using my old 15c and passed, now they insist that I use a TI to take the FE exam. At 62 I dont have the patience to unlearn RPN.
DS
3/5/2008 11:18:46 PM - US  | reply

I understand why NCEES wants to outlaw those high end calculators with wireless transmitting capability. How about the low end calculators? I used my Casio that I bought years ago when I was in highshool. It was $15 at Target. I have it thru my colledge years. I had it in my EIT exam. I had it in my master program and had it with my PE exam. I used it in my daily practice and now I had to learn the new calculator just to sit for my SE exam in California. Why is it? My calculator works just fine even it has shown some age and yes Casio doesn´t make that model any more.
Sitting next to me in the SE exam two years ago was an old guy with a beat up calculator like mine and the proctor took away his calculator. He did the calc by hand!!!!!Imagine you have to figure out the size of a timber post uder loading. Set out the load combination with all kind of Euler formula and numbers...In the afternoon, I lended him my HP33S that I bought as an extra.
I don´t think the guy can pass the exam.
I don´t know if he pass the exam because he is a genius. But I know if he doesn´t pass, I am sure one of the reason is that they took his calculator way.
But I think this was injustice. They didn´t test him based on his knowledge of the subject matter but how great he did the hand calc.
Can somebody out there please explain to me why you can´t use the low end calculator in your job and in this case?
philip
4/6/2007 1:10:24 PM - US  | reply

"I WOULD NOT HIRE an applicant so stupid as to appear before me with an "approved" calculator-- especially the HP-33s with it´s huge memory and awful architecture that renders the memory useless!"

Do you always make such arrogant statements and assumptions? While the Hp33s has its faults (admittidly, a LOT!), it is the best pocket scientific available today. Perhaps the candidate doesn´t like to lug around a graphics.

A new graduate doesn´t have access to the better pocket calculators of years past simply because they no longer are made. The market now sells either high end graphics or low end pocket scientifics with the Hp33s the really only alternative in the middle market.

So you would kick that candidate out if he shows up with his Hp33s (I use one at my desk, admittedly as I wouldn´t lose to much sleep if it walked!). I actually only know of one other engineer in my office who uses RPN.

In reply to Richard Schwartz, PE:
The examiners are paranoid that "invaders" will sit through the exam just to steal the precious questions that NCEES is too cheap and lazy to rework. Personally, after 30 years of engineering practice (mostly in aerospace defense), I WOULD NOT HIRE an applicant so stupid as to appear before me with an "approved" calculator-- especially the HP-33s with it´s huge memory and awful architecture that renders the memory useless! And it is no accident that most engineers in high technology work are NOT PE´s! Very few of them will ever design lighting systems for parking lots or transformers for Hoover dam. I never did (except for that idiot exam). I like the HP-50 with its neat applications and unit conversions built in (invert a matrix with the 1 x key), or the Palm with Math-U-Pro (a fully programmable HP-67 inspired emulator) and HotPaw Basic. Quartus is not recommended because you are likely to crash your machine and have to reboot with total loss of all memory. The built-in Calc applet in the latest Palms is a fairly capable non-programmable scientific calculator, but you can download better ones. On the other hand, I did get by the EE exam with an HP-97.

Ron Ross
2/20/2007 12:17:54 AM - US  | reply

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The examiners are paranoid that "invaders" will sit through the exam just to steal the precious questions that NCEES is too cheap and lazy to rework. Personally, after 30 years of engineering practice (mostly in aerospace defense), I WOULD NOT HIRE an applicant so stupid as to appear before me with an "approved" calculator-- especially the HP-33s with it´s huge memory and awful architecture that renders the memory useless! And it is no accident that most engineers in high technology work are NOT PE´s! Very few of them will ever design lighting systems for parking lots or transformers for Hoover dam. I never did (except for that idiot exam).

I like the HP-50 with its neat applications and unit conversions built in (invert a matrix with the 1 x key), or the Palm with Math-U-Pro (a fully programmable HP-67 inspired emulator) and HotPaw Basic. Quartus is not recommended because you are likely to crash your machine and have to reboot with total loss of all memory. The built-in Calc applet in the latest Palms is a fairly capable non-programmable scientific calculator, but you can download better ones.

On the other hand, I did get by the EE exam with an HP-97.
Richard Schwartz, PE
2/18/2007 2:05:32 AM - US  | reply

The NCEES examiners are bias to people without a degree in civil engineering. I have been surveying for almost 18 years and work people who have their RLS PLS license all the time. Almost all of them say they would not have passed the exam if not for the HP48. I am now having to go to school to learn the things that I can already do just to get a license to better myself for my family. I am 36 years old and this is taking alot of time from my wife & kids, thanks NCEES.
JERALD
11/17/2006 1:26:51 AM - US  | reply

What do you expect? I´m a Liberal Arts major. Or I may have made a typographical error.

In reply to rmarquez:
The math is not that serious. Who cares about the calculators. I think Ross spelled "libreal arts major" wrong.

Ron Ross
8/22/2006 8:34:06 PM - US  | reply

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The math is not that serious. Who cares about the calculators. I think Ross spelled "libreal arts major" wrong.
rmarquez
8/22/2006 5:56:20 AM - US  | reply

I took the PE exam a bit over a year ago with the present restrictions on calculators. I am a libreal Arts Major who took the PE EE exam (length of time & experience) and I managed to pass with the Hp33s. While I might just be a statistical anomoly, I doubt it. Granted, there were a few tough problems where my Hp48G would have been a great help, but I still managed. My back up calculator was a Casio and it too, would have been enough for the electrical.

I did miss the vector operations, but if you cover all the other bases with solid studying, that will allow you the extra time to do the tedious tough calculations should you need that extra time.

Just my opinion only for what its worth. Your own milage may vary.


Ron Ross PE
6/8/2006 10:03:56 PM - US  | reply

Allen,

Why don´t you

1.) Quit bald-faced lying on this message board about credentials you do not have. You have not (now will you ever) give this test to anyone.

2.) Go back to sucking on that corn-dog that´s pluggin´ up your mouth.

In reply to Allen Cross:
Oh my God, What a bunch of whiners! I can write a test, allow you any calc you want and you would still fail it! Trust me, I´ve done it to 3 people already as an example of how bad their math skills are.

imadeanexampleoutof3people
5/24/2006 3:31:23 AM - US  | reply

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This concept is really simple in my opinion. The people that are not taking the test or do not understand the concept of new technology are the people that are making these decisions. What I would like to know is has this new calculator regulation been tested by actual people trying to pass the exam in the 21st century or are we the mice in the cage. Are they trying to increase the number of people that will not pass the exam or are they so interested in making rules that they forgot to think about the conflicts it creates. The people that I have talked to that have took the exam and failed it or passed it said that time was the biggest challenge. Now your going to make it a bigger problem because we can not use the technology to our advantage. The passing rate for the PE exam has not actually been excellent in the past. Why in the world would you make it more difficult.
Anonymous
3/24/2006 11:55:00 AM - US  | reply

Oh my God,

What a bunch of whiners!

I can write a test, allow you any calc you want
and you would still fail it!

Trust me, I´ve done it to 3 people already as
an example of how bad their math skills are.
Allen Cross
8/3/2005 7:05:46 AM - US  | reply

What a bunch of whining - cheating is rampant on tests these days. You can buy a solution manual to any text these days on Ebay. It costs NCEES nothing to implement this ban and saves them their monopoly on giving the test. I sit next to people all day long with their graphing calculators and I am just to stupid to figure out how to use them so I just plug in the old fashioned way, take a second to reason that the answer is the correct one and 9 times out of 10 have the answer (correct) before them. Sure it hurts me on the exam that I actually have to KNOW the formulas instead of (cheating?) programming them into my calculator but I can pick up any calculator and do any computation. Me thinks the protests are more about inabilities to perform...
No cheating here
5/2/2005 10:31:05 AM - US  | reply

I got mine with the new technology, now lets see you get yours with the old.
I question the people who write the test if no challenges to the test can be made then they must know it all. Ponder this thought, In a world of black and white don´t ask grey questions.
unhappy
1/25/2005 11:04:02 AM - US  | reply

knowing mathematics and using calculators are two different things. I agree that when you are first esposed to mathematics, the use of a calculator should be prohibited in order to make your brain reason. Once that is accomplished, and you know the steps involved, it would be foolish to deny the benefits and time saving steps that a calculator or computer would bring.

I have the mathematical background to do it the long way, but give me a break, if you can get to the answer in a faster way, why do you want to fill 2 pages worth of derivations - learn it first, then be efficient and use the tools at hand.

In reply to Scott:
How about learning the theory and math instead of being ignorant and typing it into a machine that spits the answer at you. What are we looking for in engineers? Someone that has a grasp of the concepts or someone that has a grasp of his calculator. Good for the NCEES!

Spike
12/2/2004 10:39:56 AM - US  | reply

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How about learning the theory and math instead of being ignorant and typing it into a machine that spits the answer at you. What are we looking for in engineers? Someone that has a grasp of the concepts or someone that has a grasp of his calculator. Good for the NCEES!
Scott
11/14/2004 1:18:27 AM - US  | reply

I just can NOT believe how stupid and ridiculous this policy is. How about helping Americans who want to pursue their dreams and goals in life??? As a Military man I feel that this is so unfair for the new engineers who studied hard during their college years, who are also used to new technology,,,are we going back in time? I wonder who are the morrans who enhanced this dumb policy. The PE test requires completion of questions in little time, are you NCEES just thinking about MONEY? This is definetly about just that, isn´t it!!!
RD
11/8/2004 12:46:28 AM - US  | reply

I rely heavily on the CAS of the TI 89. I use it to get to the solution faster. Of course I can do things the old fashioned way by hand and a simple calculator. I can also do the proofs. Its just really tedious, slow and error prone to do it that way. I just don´t understand why they don´t embrace new tools instead of artificially restricting them. When electronic calculators came out did they force people to use slide rules? When the slide rule came out did they force people to use an Abacus? When the abacus came out did they force people to use thier fingers? I think when you view calculating technologies this way you can see how ridiculous the new calculator policy is.
Tim
9/7/2004 9:09:50 AM - US  | reply

This is the most rediculous attempt at addressing a so-called "cheating" issue that I have yet heard. I work for an engineering firm of over 100 engineers, and the 100% concensus of this ruling is that is is "absolutely rediculous". And this obscene "calculator restriction" is coming from the professionals that are administering the licensing exam....not too bright in my opinion!
t.j.
8/12/2004 1:43:15 AM - US  | reply

Banning modern calculators from the PE exam is like banning dental drills from dental board exams. There´s something fundamentally wrong with this policy. It makes one wonder who´s in charge at the NCEES - obviously people over 60 who think engineering problems should be solved with sliderules.
RP
8/10/2004 1:52:43 AM - US  | reply

This is an outrage and I am not even an HP user. I use a Casio CFX-9800G and have used it for allmost 9 years! And it along with every other calculator in the CFX series is banned. Come on, banning the 9800G I can´t see at all, its a fairly obscure graphing calculator, in fact I have only met one other casio user in the engineering program at my university!
J.H.
6/11/2004 11:30:10 AM - US  | reply

I´m lucky as an EE I don´t really need to be registered. I have prepared for the test in OCT; not realizing my old and trusty S48 has been banned. I know the NCEES has been campaigning for more EE´s to register; yet, they prohibit our primary tool. I did not know cheating is such a problem in engineering. As a principal engineer, I have managed several large teams and only once did I have to let an engineer go, because his technical ability was not constant with his academic achievement. Besides, if I were going to cheat I´d just use a digital camera.
Glenn J.
6/11/2004 8:18:10 AM - US  | reply

I have an hp-45 I wonder if I can use it on the exam my dad did
bones
5/8/2004 10:01:27 AM - US  | reply

It seems that my HP-28S is banned, too. It´s got an IR port, but I don´t own the printer. I don´t know the need to program a lot of formulas and stuff into the calculator, but I sure do like the display. The issue of stealing test questions is strange. Who cares? If you haven´t studied and/or don´t have the experience, you´re still not going to know what to do on the exam. NCEES did not think this out and their pig-headedness regarding ignoring "pleas" from reasonable people proves it. There´s nothing wrong with apologizing and thinking-out a calculator policy.

Stealing exam questions is an act of desperation. Studying only stolen test questions is folly. The NCEES, I would think, has some pretty smart people on board. However, I wonder...

It´s already pretty hard to be accepted for the P.E. exam. What´s the point in making it hellish?
Fubar
4/12/2004 9:50:50 PM - US  | reply

CHECK OSUBOOKSTORE.COM
PATRICK
4/7/2004 8:55:48 PM - US  | reply

I believe the 32SII is allowed. It has the same text capabilities as the newer 33S. I don´t believe you can string more than a word together if that. I´ll have one as my backup to my 33s. Hell I might even try to bring in my 48 just in case they decide at the last minute they´ll allow them. Time is short!!! Good luck to everyone!
Mike
4/6/2004 12:38:44 AM - US  | reply

Here´s who you can call to voice your opinion about the calculator policy.
Davy McDowell PE
NCEES - 864-624-5465
dmcdowel@ncees.org

I´m sure it will not help for the April exam, but maybe for future exams, they will come to their senses.
Troy
4/1/2004 5:18:23 AM - US  | reply

Here are the holes in this NCEES policy:

#1 - To use the infared port the calculators have to be in close proximity - 2" (come on, nobody´s going to try that)

#2 - It is approximately 1000 times easier and faster to hand write the questions in a book than to keystroke the text into a calculator.

The NCEES obviously has no common sense at all!!!
I emailed them with my opinion also. Now the sharks on ebay are getting 280.00 for a HP32SII, that sold new for about $70.00.

Does anybody know if the HP32SII is allowed? I think it has text capabilities.


Troy
4/1/2004 3:22:05 AM - US  | reply

I just found out today the HP33 calculator will not be in stock until around the 15 of April, meaning that it will not be available for the FE exam. This has been a horrible and disappointing situation. This will make the FE exam twice as hard to complete. Every other calculator on the list is beneath what we were forced to use through school
Anonymous
3/29/2004 9:03:35 PM - US  | reply

TI-68 allowed or not? Any opinions? I don´t know what to make of the vague guidelines. (What is the definition of text editing?)
Anonymous
3/28/2004 3:43:27 AM - US  | reply

MY DAUGHTER JUST FOUND OUT HE PROGRAMMABLE HP IS NOT ALLOWED FOR THE PE EXAM.
SHE ASKED ME TO CHECK OUT FOR HER WHILE SHE IS HITTING THE BOOKS TO ORDER IT ON THE WEB FOR HER.

I AM RETIRED CIVIL ENGINEER OF OVER 40 YEARS AND I CAN´T FOR THE LIFE OF ME BELIEVE THAT THE ONLY PROGRAMMABLE SCIENTIFIC CALCULATOR ALLOWED IS THE HP 33S.

IS THIS TRUE?

I CAN´T FIND ANY ANYWHERE ON THE WHOLE WORLD WIDE WEB.

WHAT IS GOING ON.

CAN ANYONE HELP ME.

THANKS. 032504
JOHN W. BUGLER
631-589-7017
JBUGLER@AOL.COM
JOHN W. BUGLER
3/26/2004 12:29:40 PM - US  | reply

The ONLY fair way of enacting this policy would be for test centers to take requests from the test takers at application time as to calculator preference and then supplying one with a cleared memory, to be returned at the end of the test. I wouldn´t mind that - but to tell me the tools I depended on all through school are not allowed is dead wrong. There are better ways of ensuring security, like random multiple exam question sets, simultaneous exam scheduling, etc.
Rocco
3/24/2004 5:36:16 PM - US  | reply

I am taking the EIT part in April 04 and I´ve used my HP48G for every engineering class I´ve taken. I´m used to the RPN notation and otherwise it takes me longer to compute problems. It would be fine if the HP 33s was available in December like it was scheduled to be but its not even that readily available now and its 3 weeks before the test. If I want to get this calculator I have to buy if off ebay from someone who is selling it at least 3 times its retail price.
Kristen
3/23/2004 9:14:36 AM - US  | reply

Has anyone with some political/legal savvy considered the possibility of contacting politicians at the federal level (senators/representatives) to intervene on our behalf. Perhaps a federal judicial restraint order (if such a thing exists). Politically, this issue has strong relevance to the present controversy concerning our competitiveness in the world market..so much so, it is being addressed in all of the presidential campaigns. I would almost guarantee most countries of the world are using the absolute latest technical advantages to win larger pieces of the world´s markets. The internet is a great way to mobilize those sharing our concerns.
Ed
3/20/2004 3:51:31 AM - US  | reply

Please join me in SENDING AN EMAIL OR CALLING NCEES ON FRIDAY MARCH 19, 2004 to complain about this ridiculous calculator policy.
The exam is time dependant, Why on earth would they require professionals to undertake such ridiculous taskS as buying and learning a new calculator when we have spent 4 years plus utilizing the tools we already KNOW. Below, are some great comments. Some day will be taking the test naked, walking through body scanners, in A military compound that has been blackout all for the sole purpose of becoming "PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERS" and ALL IN THE NAME OF PUBLIC PROTECTION AND UNDER THE GUISE OF exam PROTECTION FOR A PRIVATE COMPANY.
Maybe and most likely, we don´t need NCEES or PE registration to be professional
MIchaell
3/19/2004 6:00:54 AM - US  | reply

Is there any graphing calculator that will be allowed on the FE exam? If not this is a ridiculous decision. My entire math education has revolved around using graphs to solve problems. Given that the average time for problems is reported to be 2-4 mins I will definately not have time to graph anything by hand. It seems that the majority is getting punished for a few cheaters. I haven´t enough time to devise a way to cheat, I´m too busy trying to finish my degree and study for the exam.
Roger
3/18/2004 11:40:17 AM - US  | reply

Just so nobody is holding out hope, I heard that the NCEES has acknowledged that there has been overwhelming response to the calculator ban but they are not changing policy. There’s also some talk of trying to make future exams calculator free altogether. That is to say there won’t be questions that would require the use of calculators… kind of like NOT testing med. students on anatomy? I don’t know.

I’ve got one of the new HP33s scientific calculators. Fine machine and will definitely do the job. However, I’d like to put some survey related programs in it, but don’t have the time to spend before the exam to write them. Anyone out there have some programs for this machine already laid out? I saw one guy on the web that was willing to sell some?%$# Give me a break. Just trying to suck the life out of people in this situation is a great way to treat your peers, yeah he is a PLS. Anyway, back to the programs… I think the older programs written for the 32sII will work as well. If anyone has info on these programs could you post here please?

Mike

Mike
3/16/2004 12:23:48 AM - US  | reply

The NCEES apparently banned any calc with text editing capabilities. When it first happened they were allowing banned calcs into the next test (Oct 2003) but if I remember right the April 2004 and all that follow will use the new policy. The info I pasted below is parts of the calc policy I copied right from the NCEES calc policy page, you should go there and click on the link that will specifically address the issue according to your state laws. Good Luck!
Banned List:
Casio:
• CFX9850+

Hewlett Packard:
• HP 41 series
• HP 42S
• HP 48 series
• HP 49G

Texas Instruments:
• TI-83, TI-83 Plus and TI-83 Plus Silver Edition
• TI-85
• TI-86
• TI-89
• TI-92
• TI Voyage 200
Please keep in mind that this list is NOT all-inclusive. If your calculator has the ability to store a string of text and communicate it in any way, it will not be permitted.

4. What about calculators not shown on the approved or prohibited lists? Are they allowed in the exam room?
If the calculator has an IR port or cable and/or text-editing capabilities, it will not be allowed.

5. The list of prohibited calculators mentions the HP 48 series. I have an HP 48SX. May I bring it?
The entire HP 48 series of calculators has communication ports and thus will not be allowed at the exam sites.

6. May I use a data collector on NCEES examinations?
Land surveying data collectors are not allowed in the exam room for NCEES examinations. Some examples are the Trimble Ranger 200C and Topcon Ranger or Husky models.

Examinees should check with their licensing boards to determine what will be allowed on state-specific land surveying examinations.

8. Why not just clear the memories of the calculators before examinees leave the exam room?
With exam sites as large as 3,000 candidates, clearing the memory of every calculator is not feasible. There are really two issues here related to security:

1. Calculators being used to communicate with each other during the actual exam
2. Calculators being used to store text that is then taken from the room.

Clearing the memory satisfies only one of those two issues.
Ronelle (March 7, 2004)
3/8/2004 2:57:18 AM - US  | reply

Anyone know if this BS policy bans the TI-68? How about TI-82?
Anonymous
3/5/2004 12:17:19 PM - US  | reply

Hey everyone, guess who the NCEES is accountable to? Give up? NOBODY. They´ll do whatever they dang well please and we´ll take it because there´s nothing we can do about it. The NCEES needs to grow some chingalles and ban any and all cheaters from taking the test for LIFE. A policy with teeth. That will deter cheaters because you´ll not outrun the technology. What happens when digital cameras are the size of a shirt button? Will the NCEES will require us to take the exam naked? Well that´s exactly the same mentality of banning the calculators. The way that this policy has been implimented looks amazingly like a junior engineer that has zero project management experience. The project has blown up in his/her face and their competancy is being exposed.
Wags
3/4/2004 6:50:37 AM - US  | reply

Been out of school for a while and took the EIT two years ago with an old trusty TI-68. Got a 67 on the test and saw everybody on TI-89s or HPs. Went and bought these amazing machines; got familiar with them and as I was ready to take the test again, the policy came in effect. So back to square one. Will an advaced calculator make you smarter? No. But it will help you with T-I-M-E in the test. Bet you that NCEES will recommend scores around 65% passing be accepted as passable. The policy is set but lowering the passing score is the only fair way to address the fact that more time will be spent per question.
George Caspary
3/3/2004 11:54:19 PM - US  | reply

Genious is the ability to use what you know to your best ability. I know how to use my calculator well. And by not allowing me to use my calculator that I have been using for years inhibits my true genious to shine through. If I fail the FE exam in april then I will know why. This is Bull SH__
George
3/3/2004 5:41:36 AM - US  | reply

Coupla comments:
a. It would be nice to know the names of the NCEES board members that thought up this policy. That way, the people are that about to take the exam can let them know what we are about to go through.

- The 16 comments above - I agree with pretty much all of them. The frustration, bewilderment, anguish, and the total sick feeling one gets from the realization of this policy is fairly well documented. It would be nice if these comments could be sent to the board members.

- I feel as though the people (board members or whom ever), whether they are old in age or not-so old in age came up with these rules in light of the fact that they probably took the exam at a time when they did not have to use a calculator like the HP48 series, or anything close to it. I do not presume to know what their thought process was in deciding to implement this policy, but perhaps it was something along the lines of "we passed the test without the HP48(series), so these people should also be able to".

- I would say to the board member, we live in a different world. Get with it! Even high school students now a days are using the Texas Instuments (higher models) and HP series of higher model (48/49) calculators. We no longer live in a time when punch cards are used to run a program, which really was not that long ago. But ´IF´ some of these board members are from that generation, the thinking is different.

- 30 years ago, 9th graders were not expected to do their turn in their homework using word processors with hi-res pictures and who knows what else... We DO live in a different world.

- I have a feeling this policy will be retracted when:
(a) particular states need more certified engineers - then suddenly, an edict will come out that "under careful consideration, the rule to use the HP series has been retracted", or something to that effect.
(b) There is strong opposition.

- Just remember one thing boys and gurls: It a case of the "good´ol boys" club. If you ain´t in it, you´re not getting in it that easily. Simple human nature.

sin
2/27/2004 11:25:19 PM - US  | reply

I´m an HP-48GX person that is planning on taking the Structural PE exam. As offensive as NCEES´ retroactive calculator policy is, I can live without the many programs that I have come to cherish from my 48GX. But, the lack of RPN input and a multiple-line display really ticks me off. I´ve survived years of night-school and working full-time during the days with my 48GX and it has become absolutely second-nature to me in my career. Now, as I´m looking to finally attain my PE I need to toss away most valued tool. I´m sure I´ll survive but there is no rational reason for NCEES´ actions. Are we back in grade school again? Do we need to bring in an apple for the exam proctors or something?
Frank Mann
2/4/2004 1:47:52 AM - US  | reply

using the programmable calculators is like atheletes being on steroids. it enhances their capabilities. are they trying to level the playing field or are they paranoid about people stealing their questions? what ever the reason no one seems to understand why everyone has to dummy down for the test especially whe we´ve all learned and got acustomed to the hp48. is this their way of saying that we should know how to do it without a programmable aid? if so, the questions better be a lot more fundamental. if so i say o.k., why should people who simply know how to punch buttons on a calculator be able to pass if they dont understand why they are doing it? if we can´t figure out how to do these things without programs are we really capable of design it? (whatever it is?) however, since the technology does exist it seems retarded to go backwards. if anything they should make the questions tougher so we have to try harder to figure them out. including variables that cant come from computer programs, such as co-efficients, is one example of how to complicated problems without involving computer programs. it can be done without taking away the best tools we have and still weed out the psudeo engineers. but who am i telling this too? i´m sure you all agree, by the time the test givers change their minds and allow super calculators to be used again it will be too bad, so sad for those of us dont get to use them now. as usual, we are getting screwed and there is absolutely nothing we can do about it. i´ve had some experience at these kind of little games they play and you cant win. all you can do is try your best and let it go.
maddog
2/3/2004 8:35:06 AM - US  | reply

The scores are actually going to go down because everybody will have to learn to do things the long way (which will consume time). I don´t know how to live without my HP48 especially for vector addition/subtraction and mult/division.
kalpesh
1/27/2004 2:29:46 AM - US  | reply

I´m appalled that this decision was made by "Professional Engineers" at all. The rational and thought process, or lack there of, given to justify their decision is not exemplery of any Degreed Professional Engineer that I know. Any person with half a brain could tell that this rule wasn´t completely thought out. Like Mike said below, why in the world would someone spend an eternity trying to use their difficult and time consuming calculators text editing capability, when they could just write the problem in their reference manual. What´s next NCEES, "BAN REFERENCE MANUAL´s" If I made a decision like this in practice and implemented it, I´d expect to get pulled in front of a state license review board and be stripped of my license forever. This is a really sad example of the state of our country and the state of the Engineering profession. If this is an example of today´s good engineering judgement and decision making, then it amazes me that every bridge in this country is still standing. And yes, I also wondering why HP isn´t beginning manufacturing of an HP 48/49 without test and comm ports. The changes to the programming should be minimal, by remarking out the lines of code that enable these.
Brian
1/25/2004 2:40:09 AM - US  | reply

That´s what I was thinking, but they replied to me with no plans to build such a calculator. Seems insane due to the fact that everyone taking these tests would pretty much have to run out and buy one. Talk about a sure sale. The closer my exam date gets the more stressed II get about this damn thing! Somewhere in the back of my head though, I hear a voice saying, "you really should know how to do the same functions with a lesser calculator". But damn! we only had enough time to get the test done and maybe proof it once over. Now, I´ll be lucky to finish it at all.
Mike
1/23/2004 6:02:39 AM - US  | reply

I don´t like the remark about "old people making decisions". I´m 52 and have learned to use the hp48GX while in A&M for a good part of 6 years fighting my way through an engineering degree. Now I will have to again learn to use something unknown to me without the help the 48 gave. My remarks are this why isn´t HP looking to make a killing by putting into production the 49G+++(???); less text edit and infered port to support all the engineer and science major students across this country and maybe many others? WAKE UP HP AND GIVE US SOME HELP!! Maybe if we all put our voices togeather they will hear us.
Art Stringer
1/21/2004 11:43:23 AM - US  | reply